Mr. President, thank you to your team for the wisdom of receiving us once again just days before the election , because it worked out well last time. So, thank you very much, Mr. President, for receiving us. But this time, instead of our studio, we're here at home. Exactly. In the Alvorada Palace. Thank you very much, Mr. President. Oh, what a pleasure. It's because you guys have become classy. [laughter] Oh, oh, Lad, you call him Givanildo, it's a disgrace, [laughter] you know? Aivan gave it a name that was simply from Pernambuco. [laughs] So, uh, I wanted to tell you that it was very important to know that after we did that interview in 2022, you did well, you grew thanks to your competence, your ability. Therefore, congratulations. Thanks. Thanks. A lot of good things have happened since then, haven't they? And truth. A lot of good things happened and it really was a milestone in our career. But it's good, Char, to talk to Lud. Thanks. I want you to take the following into account : you can ask whatever you want, however you want. Look, there 's no veto or censorship, no questions. If I know the answer, I will answer. I'm not, I said, I don't know. [laughter] Ask J., ask, and he doesn't answer. Yes, we want to talk about Lula's four projects today, talk about the election, but we're a current affairs program, so we'd also like to bring up some current events, and especially talk about this final stretch of the election, because there's something that has intrigued a lot of people, Mr. President. It seems that the more dirt appears on the record of your potential second- round opponent, the more suspicions of involvement and all the stories of embezzlement and buying property with cash surface, we don't see that reflected in the election polls, and we wanted to know from you why you think this phenomenon occurs, that it seems that the more the man's name is tarnished, it doesn't reflect in the polls, and we are intrigued. Look, I think first we have to understand that Brazil is experiencing a different moment than in other times. In other words, back in the day you were running a campaign competing against the PDT, the PSB, the PMDB, the PSDB, Serra, Alm; it was a different story, it was a different level of politics. Uh-huh . Politics had rivalry, but it did n't have the widespread hatred that it has today. Because today it's no longer about politics, today it's about hate and lies, spreading lies 24 hours a day. And you know that since we were little we learn that lies fly and the truth crawls, right? So it's much more difficult because to tell the truth you have to construct the narrative of the truth. Not to lie. To lie, you open your mouth, say something silly, and it spreads. So, given what's happening in Brazilian politics... The second thing that's happening in politics is a worldwide movement today of the growth of the far right all over the world. Yes. Which today has the President of the United States as a reference. He is the great guru of the far right and has been trying to promote this in various parts of the world, in Asia, in Latin America, and in Europe. Yes. And we have to face this with great wisdom. I always think that we will win this dispute by having the truth defeat the lie, because the lie also has its time limit. Uh-huh . Even lies have short legs. If we know how to build the right narrative, we're going to give them a run for their money. I honestly don't see how we could lose these elections. I don't see how. I say this every day : I'm not motivated by research, neither when I'm doing well nor when I'm doing badly. I am driven by work. I have a goal, I'm going to work hard, and because of everything we've done in Brazil, I'm sure we're going to win the elections, okay? This is my peace of mind. Hey, you see, what is a lie? Uh, we're watching that trial in the Supreme Court. Yes. Okay . Yesterday my opponent recorded a video saying that I am responsible for Alexandre de Moraes, [laughs] his obsession is to get Alexandre de Moraes, but he doesn't want to fight with Alexandre de Moraes over Banco Master. Yes. That 's not why he's angry, because he knows he's more dependent on the bench than anyone else . His anger towards Alexandre de Moraes stems from the fact that Alexandre de Moraes knows, and ordered the arrest of, the man who killed Marielle. Yes. His gripe with Alexandre de Moraes is that Alexandre de Moraes arrested his father and the coup plotters who tried to carry out the January 8th coup. Yes. Yes. So that's what he's afraid of, and what's bothering him is that this investigation that's happening in the Supreme Court is going to find out who's really involved in this. For example, they created the INSS gang. They created the criminal gang during the Bolsonaro government. In two years we uncovered the gang, we've already apprehended almost all of them, we've already taken almost 6 billion from them, wow. We have already paid pensions to 5 million retirees. Investing R$1.5 billion to pay for the theft they committed against social security. And they try to give the impression that it's our fault, that is, they formed the gang, and we arrested them. Ah, Lula's son is a partner of Careca, and Flávio is the one who shares the office with Careca . Dav, so we have to take this thing apart. Look, I wasn't president when Alexandre de Moraes was nominated to be Minister of the Supreme Court; he was a senator. He must have voted. Uh-huh. Right, Alexandre Moraes, I wasn't president when they nominated Cásio, he must have voted. I wasn't president when they nominated André Mendonça, therefore he is to blame, not me. Then he tries to play. And I want to tell you, good sound, everyone who made a mistake, who committed an error in any area, has to be judged. Yes. What I advocate for is a fair trial, with the right to a defense, but if someone commits a crime, that person has to pay the price. This applies to me, it applies to Alexandre Moraes, it applies to Faquim. And does this apply to you, Cau? And it applies to you too, Ludo. Exactly. So that's my thesis. I believe that Alexandre Moraes has rendered two great services to Brazilian democracy. He was president of the TFE, you know, during the election in which I won. And he knows, Brazil knows about Bolsonaro's attempt to destroy credibility in the Brazilian ballot box, which is the most modern and fastest electoral process . In a country with 8 million km² and millions of voters, you know the election results in every state 2 hours before the election ends. 2 hours. And I say this: if it were possible to steal the university, I would never have had power in the republic. Did you think I was going to beat Serra? Did you think [laughs] you could beat someone you know? The ballot box is never a very serious matter and it is not subordinating itself to the internet, therefore there is no manipulation process. So here's the thing, we have to face this, building the right narrative for the people to understand. Yes. And we have time for that. I'm very calm about that. Very peaceful. Perfect. Very good. Yes, and continuing with the theme of narrative, and you mentioned the Supreme Court, we're now in a context where I think the Supreme Court is experiencing its most turbulent moment. I don't remember ever seeing a situation like this before. And speaking of narrative, do you think there's a segment, perhaps, of the electorate or perhaps an active effort on the part of the press to try in some way to associate and confuse people into thinking that a Supreme Court crisis is a government crisis, when it is not? Did you forget? I was arrested by that Supreme Court and stayed in jail for 580 [laughs] days. That's really funny. What he needs to explain is where is the 130 million he took from Vocaro for his father's movie? Yes, that awful movie. Ah, we read the script. My God in heaven. I want to know. Flávio took the money, 130 million. Yeah. R$ 130 million. It wasn't R$13. Exactly. It wasn't R$130,000. It wasn't 1.3 million, it was 130 million to make a bad movie . And it doesn't explain where it's from, it doesn't explain where this money is. It was a fund that went directly, I don't know from where, to the United States, that is, to support his brother who's there plotting the coup against Brazil. Perfect. Yes. And if he goes back to Brazil, he'll be arrested. Yes. Because traitors to the nation must be imprisoned. He's selling Brazil to American interests. So all of this is something we need and it's our responsibility, it's not his responsibility to speak well of them. We have to say what they are. Exactly. I'll tell you one thing, it's almost like a gang, not a family. Uh-huh . That's the concrete fact. And it's up to the PT (Workers' Party) to make this clear so everyone can say it. The Brazilian people cannot, you know, for the benefit of the Brazilian people themselves , you know, choose someone unqualified to preside over this country. Yeah, you do n't have to be responsible, right? Because everything we're seeing happening right now is leaving the public, you know, kind of confused. People are like, "Oh, but the movie, that stuff, says, 'No, man, that's all a scam those guys were organizing, right?'" Yeah. Yeah . And Mr. President, we did a beautiful live broadcast. But the simple thing is, they created Banco Master. Uh-huh. They created Banco Master. Yes. In other words, they created a banker and I made the banker a prisoner. [laughs] That's the concrete fact. Yes. They created the INFS gang and I arrested the gang, you know? So they're very fast on the internet, you know? And they try to put all their blame on our government. Yes. So look. Oh, but the cost of living is high. I know the cost of living isn't cheap, I know it's high. I know it's high, but pay attention to one thing. L de Cauê, we have the lowest accumulated inflation in 4 years. We have a real minimum wage increase every year above inflation. During his government, there were 7 years without a real increase, you know? We have... we have... "We have the highest growth in the wage bill, you know, in the history of this country. We have the highest number of jobs. 5.3% unemployment is the best unemployment rate in Brazilian history. The cost of living is still high. But compared to what? Compared to the salary of someone who earns today. But if you compare the cost of living, you know, during my government, it was 13% in 4 years of the cost of living for food. 13%. During his government it was 56%. Wow, 50%. So you realize that we took a plane at full speed, we spent two and a half years recovering all the ministries that they destroyed – the Ministry of Culture, the Ministry of Labor, the Ministry of Women, the Ministry of Social Security, they destroyed everything. We have to recover everything. We recovered the Ministry of Culture and today we have 16,400 cultural centers in this country, man. We went from 4,000 to 16,000. Because I'm one of those who believe that without culture there is no nation. Yes. Yes. Okay. A nation, you know?" One of the faces of a nation is the culture of its people. That's right. And they tried to destroy it, and we recovered it. So that's what's at stake. Yes. That's why my tranquility... Yes, my tranquility is total and absolute. There will come a moment when the people will say the following: tomorrow I will choose who will be the godfather of Brazil. Uh-huh . I will choose who will take care of this country. I will choose who will take care of the people. And it is in this moment of meditation that every voter has to do. I even have a subsequent request, you know? You don't need to choose a name to vote for. Vote for yourself. When you're down on your luck, you start thinking about what you want for the country, what you want for your family. And then you see among the candidates who can do what you want. Then you vote. Done. Proposal. For example. It's that simple. You vote. For example. Because if you remove the layer of hatred towards the left that they propagate, very little remains, right? I do nothing, right? And you're talking a lot about the issue of culture, and I had a question. I specifically mentioned that you've reserved, right? 50 million for 2026 and 2027 for the National Hip Hop School, right? That you're going to do. And I wanted to understand that you have another proposal, which is for hip hop to be included in the school curriculum, right? For kids, with breakdancing, DJing, MCing, and graffiti, also in the arts. How do you see hip hop culture being included in this education for young people? Because hip hop saves lives, right? We know there are people who have been doing this for over 30 years, workshops and everything. How do you see this plan working to incorporate hip hop culture there? Look, what I hope is that we can get a law approved in the National Congress to make it permanent. Uh-huh. You know? And that's why, man, I defend full-time schooling, because in a full-time school you'll have time for yourself, in addition to the normal classes you have to teach, you 'll have time to open the kids' minds to the world. Cultural. Uh-huh. Women need to know, young people need to learn about rap, about hip hop, about funk, about samba, about bolero, about whatever they want to learn. And they will also learn to discuss the issue of femicide. We want to give them preschool and university education, to prepare young people so they know that men are not better than women, that we are equal. So there will be something fantastic, there will be , we already have 50 million already invested in this initial phase, which is almost a pilot plan to prove that it's possible to do much more than we are doing in the area of ​​education and to really open the minds of society, to open the minds of young people because every time young people think about their future, we really have to think about the following: what future do we want for the Brazilian people? What kind of human being do we want to create? Is it an angry human being? Is it a brilliant human being ? Or do you want a human being who learns to live in harmony, to respect people, to coexist? Democratically in diversity? That's the world we want to create, and that world involves bringing all our things to school. Uh-huh. By the way, Mr. President, you talked about that, about ceasing to be angry, focusing on culture and everything else. Uh, at the beginning we talked about this rise of the far right and how it has, including from its biggest godfather, Trump and everything else, but it's on a global scale in Brazil as well. And I believe you are a little more optimistic than we are, because sometimes we get a little lost in the number of far-right people in Brazil and end up becoming a little disillusioned. But this is almost a personal question to see if it injects a little hope into me. Do you think there are people who have gone too far into this far-right hole here, that it's impossible to rescue them, or can we still pull everyone back one day? No, no. I see the guy who is right-wing isn't going to stop being right-wing. Uh-huh. If it's in his blood, he wo n't change. It's there. And there are guys who, even today... Germany has been recreated. Just recently, a Nazi party won the election in a small town in Germany. Yes. So you can't end this extremism. There are people who are born that way, who will die that way, but they become very small in the face of society. What's important is that the democratic system needs to convey to society the idea that it's worthwhile. And for democracy to be worthwhile, it needs to do the things that society expects of it. Uh-huh. Democracy isn't a pact of silence where society doesn't speak out, doesn't shout, no. It's exactly the opposite. Democracy is the only space that allows society to speak out, to shout, to demand. It's not enough to vote. You need to vote and demand accountability. Vote and demand accountability. Put people in power and demand accountability so that we have the hope of changing things every year, electing better people to take care of the legislature, to take care of the city hall, to take care of the state and the union. I think we can't, you know, extract the truly evil person , the one who's at the root of it. For example, you would never imagine that a Palmeiras fan... A die-hard fan will root for Corinthians. Uh-huh. Will want Corinthians to win the Libertadores Cup this year. [laughs] Yes. It's also true that you'll never see a die-hard Corinthians fan rooting for Palmeiras, or Flamengo for Vasco, or Grêmio for Internacional; in other words, there's that fanatical part that doesn't change its position, but there's a majority that can move according to the political situation, and the role of a political party like the PT is to try to change people. Yesterday I was discussing this with people, and I keep thinking: the PT in São Paulo has never won the elections, right? The PT has always been second in São Paulo. Now, why hasn't the PT won the elections? It's not because our opponent personally has more votes than us. It's much more because of anti-PT sentiment. Yes, yes, yes. You know, there wasn't anti-Malufo sentiment. Yes. Everyone joined together to defeat Maluf. Now everyone joins together to defeat the PT, because the PT has become the great political reference in this country. Look, I'm president for the third time. Dilma governed twice. That's five PT terms in a short time. And how can I be sure I'll win a fourth term? That's fantastic for this country. Yes. In the democratic world, you have Russo, who was the best American president, who was elected four times. And here in Brazil, you'll have Lula, who will receive the people's vote, [laughs] you know? We're in for the fourth time. And there's something, Cal, there's something I tell the young people, because the 16, 17, 15, 18, 20-year-olds, sometimes they're a little rebellious. I have five children, I know how these kids behave. Sometimes they don't believe in anything, sometimes everything is wrong, sometimes they know. But I think, they know nothing. It's important for them to understand the following: you have to analyze the history of the country so you don't take hasty and wrong actions. Yes, I've been challenging people with this : study Brazil. Since November 15, 1889. You see, I've gone far, I've gone far. Take the date of the proclamation of the Republic, when Marshal Deodoro da Fonseca was a real marshal. Today there are no more marshals, but back then there were. He was the guy who never left his post. So, take his first election and do an analysis: which president of the Republic, from all parties, all religions, all sectors of society, has been elected? Analyze from 1889 until now and see if there's any government that has achieved 10% of the social inclusion that we have. Uh-huh. Lula and Dilma. Yes. Go ahead . That's part of the problem they have with us. Yes. Because when we put 14 billion in savings, the bankers start saying: "Hey, you're spending money on this poor guy so he can be here so we can speculate a little with him." But we're saving the kids, you know, from going down the wrong path, so as not to discourage them from studying. Yes, because it becomes exist. So when we spend 400 billion on social inclusion policies, the bankers start thinking, "Wow, that money could be with us, why give money to the poor?" [laughs] "Why do poor people have to study?" They keep saying that, they keep questioning why poor people have to study. And for me, you know, for me education is an obsession. Yes. Since I didn't have the right to study, I work day and night so that every Brazilian, you know, from the outskirts of the city, has the right to go to university, to get a doctorate, to graduate in something, to secure their future. Yes. You know, that's my obsession, and that's why there's so much prejudice against us. But instead of getting angry, we have to deal with it calmly, keep things going, and get on with the rest . There's more to do, there's much more to do. Hmm. We've just done something fantastic. We've proven a financing line for motorcycles, bicycles, cars for drivers, Uber, and taxis right here . He knows? We've already sold 50,000 cars. Wow , that's awesome! We've already sold, I think, 19,000 motorcycles. Now I'm in a... These kids who work there carrying hot food on their backs, they're starving. There ca n't be anything worse than having a larger roundworm eating a smaller roundworm inside your stomach, and knowing there's warm food on your back. Uh-huh . So first we want to discuss the best salary for these guys and give them the conditions, and we are also creating points so that they have the right to change clothes to carry, you know, their car, their motorcycle, their cell phone. Uh-huh. It's about treating people like human beings. Exactly. Oh, and you guys have done pretty cool stuff in the past, like when, for example, the heavens, right? And what about Marta's life at that time too? I grew up in the jambiro sky, right? So, like, there I had access to the theater, the painting, the pool, forget about the track. Yes, Marta lost the election to C, you know? That's why I always say, Marta, who is an upper-middle-class woman, lost the elections in São Paulo because of Cassabe, because she chose to bring quality education to the poor, right? He removed the tin schools. When I went to Cro de Guianzes, there was a large favela nearby. I went to the inauguration, and I stood there looking at that poor neighborhood. I kept telling Marta, "The middle class won't accept you, Marta, because you're putting poor kids in a school that has a swimming pool, a theater, a sports court, and computers for all the children, you know?" The elite of São Paulo will not accept it. And how did he not accept it, how did he defeat her? And it's crazy because these factories, nowadays we also have cultural factories in the outskirts, right, that bring this culture and access, right, to these young people that they normally wouldn't have in other places, you know? So you managed to build something there that gives them the opportunity to perform and have a space there, right? So it is. You know, once Cauê, once I went to a meeting in Belo Horizonte, uh, a meeting with the hip hop people, the periphery, the favela, they come down to Belo Horizonte, that was the name. And when I arrived, man, the atmosphere was tense, but it was already tense. A policeman was being carried in someone's arms, bleeding, there were people throwing marbles on stage, and beer. And, and, and, my friend was there, the Manu Brau crew, and I went to talk, Manu Brau, I think it's time for us to talk because, you know, the atmosphere isn't good. He used to say to me, "Hey man, man, let them be, let people burn off some energy." [laughter] We'll go there at the right time. Then came a time when Manobral said, "Let's go." But he didn't let anyone go up, not even a candidate for senator, not even governor, just me and him. He got there and gave a command. Look, I know you guys here don't like politics, but I have my brother, my bro, and all that. I spoke and he gave me the floor. It was the shortest rally I've ever done, [laughs] because I looked at people's faces, and they did n't want to listen. [laughs] Then I said, "Dude, I don't think I spoke for even 4 minutes." I said the following, look. I can tell from your faces that you don't like politics. I see you guys making mistakes, but I want to tell you the truth. Do you know what the misfortune is for those who dislike politics? That's because it's governed by those who like it. Exactly. So, start liking politics so you can elect your people. Don't just be grumpy, because it's not worth it . Exactly. The election results will come regardless of the faces you're making. So, instead of getting angry, get into politics, let the hip hop guy run for city council, for state representative, for mayor. When we do that, we'll start to change this country. But while we just get angry saying, "I don't like it, I don't like it." We're screwed. AND. And I say this, Lodo, ​​because in 1978, Cauê, I was 33 years old. I didn't want to know about politics. Do you know what I used to say that I thought was beautiful? I don't like politics and I don't like people who like politics. Look at that, I thought it was awesome. Did you think so? [laughs] You think so? And the São Paulo press was saying: "Now, a pure worker has emerged, a worker who doesn't want power, he just wants to know what he's doing." [laughs] Then, after three months, I created the party. Then they got annoyed with me. [laughs] And why did I consciously decide to create a party? Because I went to Congress and asked them to pass a law, to prevent the approval of a law that prohibited bank employees from striking, prohibited gas station attendants from striking, and prohibited teachers from striking. Then I went to the National Congress. When I was in the National Congress, excuse me, but there weren't any workers there, not a single laborer. I said, "How stupid of me, I'm waiting for Congress to pass a law to help workers, and there aren't any workers here." Never mind , I'll start the party there. I created [laughs] P. Three times president soon. That's quite a journey, is n't it? When it came to the PT (Workers' Party), it's no small feat , because look, I came in second in '89 competing against L. Guimarães, Brizola, Aureliano Chaves, who was vice-president with Maluco (a reference to a former president) and FIFA Domingo, and Mario Covad. I came in second. In '94 I came in second. In '98 I came in second. In 2002, I was the first. In 2006, I was the first. In 2010, Diba was first. In 2014, Diba came in first. In 2018, ADAT came in second. And in 2022 I went first. So the PT has a history. Yes. The PT has a history, and that's what fuels the far- right's hatred against us. Yes, that 's right, Mr. President. What would be the difference, since that's exactly it, with a fourth term, sir, at the end of a fourth term you become, I think, the president with the longest time in office as well, right? If I'm not mistaken, the longest-serving president [clearing throat] democratically elected, because Getúlio was in power for 15 years out of 30, 45, but he was a dictator. Uh-huh. Yes. It's that time of year. And then he became a great president. Even though he was a dictator. I started my political life by being very critical of Getúlio. The Workers' Party (PT) was born in opposition to Getúlio Vargas. Yeah. Because we used to say that the labor charter, that is, the CLT (Consolidation of Labor Laws), was a faithful copy of the Brazilian union structure, a faithful copy of Mussolini's labor charter in Italy. Then I started getting smarter, I started learning more things. Today, besides the Workers' Party ( PT), there was a president who implemented policies of social inclusion: Getúlio Vargas. In [year], he created the salary mo. Uh-huh . And in 1943 he created the CLT (Consolidation of Labor Laws). Today some people criticize the CLT (Brazilian Labor Law), but back then the CLT freed workers from slavery, established working hours, and gave them vacation time, man. So it was an extraordinarily courageous thing to do. That's why there isn't an alley in São Paulo named after Getúlio. Uh-huh . Because the elite of São Paulo hate Getúlio, just as they must hate me too. But I think that this discourse about the CLT (Brazilian labor law) that we have nowadays with young people, I think it's because they're speaking badly about the CLT, but not necessarily, how can I put this? Yes, I understand, because the benefits it offers are very good for those who do it. I think it's much more about the issue of scale, you know, of work. But let me tell you something. The problem with the CLT (Brazilian Labor Law) is the following. Ah, I've always defended the CLT (Brazilian Labor Law) and at the same time I advocate for changes to the CLT. A law that was created in 1943 needs to adapt to the modern world; it ca n't remain the same. So, what a change. That's why we defend collective bargaining agreements, because in a collective bargaining agreement, through the union—if it's a strong union— the workers define working hours, define wages, and define a series of rights for the workers, okay? That's why I'm a proponent of collective bargaining agreements, and now we're advocating for the end of the 6-day-on, 1-day-off work schedule. That. In other words, I've always worked five hours on, two hours off , right? The organized industry, the automotive industry, already works 5 to 2. But there are millions of people, especially in retail, who work six hours for the price of one. People don't have time to rest. Can you imagine a woman who sometimes has three tasks at a time, you know? Because women have to take care of the children, take care of the house, take care of their husbands, and still work outside the home. So it's important for women to have a day to stay home and rest. Truly resting. Yes. Because a woman's night is for work, and a woman's Sunday is also for work . Because she's the one who cleans the house, she's the one who washes the bathroom, she's the one who bathes the children, she's the one who changes the children's diapers, she's the one who prepares lunch, she's the one who prepares dinner, you know? So women need time to rest, and we men still haven't learned to go into the kitchen and help women. Do you help your wife? Sometimes. Sometimes. And why not every day? That's right, isn't it? Because of work. Do you [laughs] help your wife? I don't have it. Yes, I'll help. I'll help. I do n't have it, I don't have the skills to take care of the house. I'm bad at this. Not really, but at least clean, to clean the floor, [laughs] wipe it down, you have to wipe it down, wash a dish. You don't know how to wash dishes [laughs]? No, I wash, wash, wash. I said, I don't have time to clean the house, but I'm doing the rest of the chores. [laughs] We're busy with our tasks. You can give your home a little robot as a gift. You could give them a little robot to do the cleaning. Yes, [laughs] but that's where you talking comes in, right? Like, sometimes it even ends up being overwhelming, right? It's a lot of work, that's why we 're defending it. I hope Columbo puts it to a vote soon so we can be sure we 'll have more time to rest, to take care of the child, to go for walks, to read something. There is a time to play and a time not to play at Bets. Yes, it's Bets. That's a problem. It's good, it's good to say, it's good to say to both of you the following: we are discussing this, I've already had three meetings with the government, I've already had meetings with society, and my personal intention is to put an end to the [unclear - possibly "betting" or "betting"]. Good, right ? My personal stance, obviously, I have to take into account what society thinks. The other day I spoke with eight people, eight of whom have outstanding debts. A partner owes 2.hões2. He sold his father's land, he sold his store, he sold his car. Betting is a disease. Yes. It's gambling addiction. Illness. Gambling addiction, you know? So, I spoke with the 27- year-old girl, she owes R$ 730,000. Our. Okay . He can no longer leave. What's worse is that people with this disease hide it from their husbands, their fathers, their mothers. Shameful, isn't it? Do you remember when the star player emerged? Yes. A star player has emerged. What happened to the guy who was addicted? He would arrive home, his mother wouldn't be in the kitchen, he would take the gas cylinder off the stove to sell it in order to buy crack. Exactly. He knows? Another would take the food that was on the shelf, the rice and beans, to sell, so he could buy crack. Yes. That's how betting is; people are selling what they don't have, going into debt to gamble, because everyone thinks they're going to get rich instantly. Yes, and nobody creates gambling to get rich. I did n't create it, I didn't want to. Ah, one can win for a million to lose. Yes. So I'm very annoyed about it. I want to have a lot of responsibility. But this business of "there are bets, no," all bets live off gambling. Exactly. Back in the day, you had a lottery where you could get 13 points, and one day I won the lottery, and I won the lottery 74 times. Oh, you have no idea that I discovered I was stingy. I didn't even tell my mom because I thought I was [laughs] rich. I said, "I'm going to tell my mom, she's going to tell my brothers. My brothers are going to ask to borrow my money, I'm not [laughs] going to tell my mom." Then the next day I was living in Parque Bristo in São Paulo. Then the next day I got up, went to the newsstand, got the afternoon paper, and there it was, more than 30,000 people won. I only won, [laughs] I won R$100. Then I found out I was poor again, man. But I found out it was going up, so I never played again. It was very fast, right? I never played again. So, but back then you'd wait a week to stop playing and there was a limit. Not anymore, man. Now the game is inside your house, it's in your bed, it's in your bathroom. This girl who owes 730, she would take a shower secretly from her husband, she'd take the showerhead, take her cell phone, and play while showering. Uh-huh. It's because this one here is next door. Okay, right? Here, here, here. Uh-huh. Working with me, I've encountered two people who are in debt, one owes R$10,000. When someone who earns four owes ten, they can't pay anymore, man. Yes, yes. So , I met a woman whose son killed himself at 26, he hanged himself. Wow. Here at the Alvorada Palace, a young soldier shot himself in the head. I heard it was because he owed R$200,000. Yeah, that 's the problem. So, here's the thing, you can't allow a type of gambling that leads people to death, that leads people to torture, you know? The guys tell stories, you know? It's very sad to see them crying. One woman has already tried to kill herself three times, you know? Ashamed of her husband, ashamed of her father, because she deceived her father, deceived her mother, deceived her uncle, deceived her friend, in other words, the person deceives everyone. So I want Let me tell you this: if it were up to me , I would end the gambling. Obviously, I 'm the president, I have to listen to other people, because I can't make an abrupt decision, you know, without thinking about the consequences. But honestly, gambling today is a disgrace in this country for the poor people who work and lose their money gambling. When I worked at Vilade in São Bernardo do Campo, I had a colleague called Azeitona, remember his name, Azeitona? This Azeitona was a great colleague, but a quality colleague. He called me "taturana" (caterpillar), I called him Azeitona. This colleague, on the day he received his paycheck—we received it on the 10th and the 25th. The 10th was his salary, the 25th was his food voucher—he would go to Ramiro's bar, which had a snooker table, and he would only leave when he was naked, man. Wow. The next day he was asking for loans. So we can't allow a level of debt like this. Part of society is because of that. Yes. It's a lot of people. It's a lot of people, right? A lot of people. Yes, Mr. President. We also want, as we are very connected, I think I'm talking too much about you, it's important that you talk too much. But this is for us when the interviewee, when the interviewee comes, we like it, because then we also have time to reflect on what else we want to talk about. In fact, we are involved in the digital world and we always support measures that favor national sovereignty against the influence of big tech companies, American companies trying to implement their programs here in Brazil, including, you know, even by their government in the past to spy on us. They did this with Dilma during the Obama administration and everything. And we are always committed to the idea of ​​national sovereignty. My dream was to have an internet like China's. I wanted us to have our own social network, you know? So that we would n't need to expose ourselves to Silicon Valley. But unfortunately, it also seems that there is a difficulty in assimilating this because Part of the people who are just angry are like, "Oh, why did you take my service off the air?" Because the service is from another country. It didn't want to submit to national subservience. So something needs to be done somehow. What do you have to say about that? Because it's sad to see people get so angry with the government when it takes a measure to protect them. I [laughs] go crazy. Look, I understand that because I lived many years without being president. In other words, many times we don't measure the consequences of the things we criticize. Until I was 23, my life consisted of watching, you know, the sports column, the 20 news stories about Guzma, you know? And nothing, I didn't think about politics, you know? No government was any good, no union was any good. That's how it was, there are many people like that today. So it's not their fault, it's our fault for not being able to give people, you know? The correct narrative. I always say the following, Lod, if you say something once, and the person doesn't understand, you can... Telling someone they're stupid. If you say it a second time and they don't understand, you can still say they're stupid. But if you say it a third time and they still don't understand, then the one saying it is stupid. [laughs] Understanding, you know? So we have an obligation to construct the correct narrative for people. Yes. You know? So that people begin to understand. Look, for example, at something I wanted to tell you. You know I only have a diploma as a lathe operator. Uh-huh. Okay . Because of my lathe operator diploma, I was the first of my mother's eight children to own a refrigerator. I was the first to own a television, I was the first to own a car, I was the first to own a house because of a technical diploma I earned. Uh-huh. So, many times I see that a girl graduates and says: "Oh, it wasn't worth studying because I still earn little." "I thought I was going to improve." It 's not that fast. It's a process, you know? People study, it's rewarding for people to have their diploma, but then people have to analyze the job market, they have to see if the course is n't providing job opportunities, and then they 'll do another one. Uh-huh. Because you also need to look for courses that have a job market, because if there are many people taking the same course, the chance of fewer job openings is very high. Uh-huh. When demand is greater than supply, it's more difficult. Uh-huh. So, we need to start looking for courses that consider the job offers available in the market. For example, now regarding artificial intelligence, I'm going to invest heavily in education during my fourth term. Uh-huh. I'm already the president who has created the most universities in the history of Brazil. I 'm the president who has created the most Federal Institutes in the history of Brazil. I'm the president who has placed the most students. I'll give you a number in your head. In 2004, Brazil had 4 million. In 2003, Brazil had 4,800,000 workers in the job market with university degrees. Do you know how many there are today? 25 million. And I want it to reach 50 million. Uh-huh. Okay. And we're going to invest heavily in advanced courses, you know? These courses now in artificial intelligence. Uh-huh. I don't want to fall behind, you know, China or the United States. We're going to have to learn how to do artificial intelligence in the Portuguese language. That's why we're going to train many young men and women. We're going to open courses in all universities, in federal institutes, you know? And we're going to be the king of artificial intelligence, you know? Brazil is no longer being treated as if it were an insignificant country. But it's also good to think about the regulation of artificial intelligence, right? Today we also have a problem, which is that artificial intelligence, especially American artificial intelligence, is, how do you say, calibrated with a lot of artistry and with theft from other artists as well, right? So that's another important thing we have to think about. The regulation of artificial intelligence will have to be done globally. Yesterday I saw an article The UN is complaining that universal regulation of artificial intelligence is urgently needed. Yes, we have that because today the strongest country in artificial intelligence is China. After the United States and China, India is evolving a bit, but Brazil needs to do its part. Uh-huh. Okay . We already have a practically digital government. 178 million Brazilians, you know? Use the government through GOVR. Uh-huh. You know, we have information here in health, in education, but we need to evolve and train people. Why? We're going to invest a lot, and the regulation is going to be tough. You see, I'll give you an example of a tough regulation. Ah, we made a regulation so that we don't allow girls and boys to be victims of offenses, of provocations through cell phones. Uh-huh. You know, this is something extremely important that we can defend. We prohibit children from taking phones to school. It's another extremely important thing. I know that Australia is passing a law to prevent algorithms from taking control of people. So we're going to move forward in this. Brazil We already have the most stringent regulations, you know, against internet use for children, girls and boys in this country. Yes, right? And we're going to keep moving forward. It's important because with this growth we see on the internet, right, with these platforms that, as Cauê said, you have to understand that when the government makes a decision, it's often for your own good, right, not just to harm the platform, because there are many hate channels, you know, hate stuff on the internet that sometimes reaches children and even messes with someone's head, leading them to the wrong side. So I think regulation is also important for artists who depend on their art, you know? Illustrators, musicians, right? I was even talking to MC, he was even saying, "Man, the royalty thing, you know, how to take care of all that so the government makes it right for everyone to understand, because data centers are being built there, right? Not here, we just approved the law guaranteeing that artists will be respected in their rights. Nobody can, you know, make an artist poor." Because the internet takes over his music and the platforms. We've already done it and we're going to continue working on it. Man, I 'm convinced of the following: I think the internet is an extraordinarily good thing, you know? It's a technological advancement, you know? Extraordinary, but we need to use it to benefit people, not to harm them, you know? People who commit digital crimes have to be punished as if they had committed crimes in real life. Exactly. You know, the guy thinks he's innocent because he's on the internet talking nonsense, talking rubbish, provoking women, making fun of people, swearing. These people have to be punished, categorically punished. There will be people who don't like it, too bad, but we're going to make sure people are punished. Yeah, there's even the story of... I created a channel on Billy Billy, right, on that Chinese channel on the platform. And when I went to register my video there, I think I put the wrong tag or something, and I got banned from my channel, you know? There... "Guys, they don't even let you misspell a comma like that . And imagine the content we have, you know, the Mandarin program. No, no. I was uploading videos from Brazil there and it wouldn't go through. Huh, man. [laughs] Sophisticated, huh? Givanildo, after he became London [laughs], is lying, man. No, but I got banned for a year because that's how it is there, even people who talk about health, things like that, they have to upload the file nicely in the video showing, they have to show the research, they have to show their resume. You can't make a channel to talk about being against vaccines because first of all, we know that has no scientific basis, right? But when there is, they have to present documents to be able to create content on the internet. Yeah, it's very... Let me bring up a topic that was the first question you asked me, which is the following: The Ministry of Education included hip hop in the school curriculum as a didactic-pedagogical tool. That's right. The Hip Hop School program is an engagement strategy." ...of young people and the integration of this form of cultural production into education. There are 50 million for initiatives in public schools in 2023. In June 2026, you know? 100 cultural collectives in the country benefited from the national " Voices of the Periphery" award. An unprecedented award [clearing throat] that strengthens collectives that work with rap battles. Let me tell you something. What's new about that? The novelty is that a part of the Bolsonaro elite wants to take their children out of school so they can study at home. Yes. And we want the kids to go to school to socialize, for people to interact socially, for people to play, for people to argue, for people to fight, for people to run, play ball, do anything. Uh-huh. Human beings were born to live in community. Yes. We can't lock ourselves in the world of our cell phones. Yes. Because today people, I don't know if you're like this, they lose the sound at midnight, they grab their cell phones, they wake up at two in the morning, they grab their cell phones. You're like, "I'm like that." You go to sleep at midnight, your wife is next to you, you don't even look at her, you just grab your cell phone [laughs] finger. Then you get up in the morning, instead of looking at your wife, giving her a kiss, you grab your cell phone and start using your daughter's finger. You're already on your cell phone. It's incredibly silly. Yes, exactly. Yes. You don't eat lunch, you eat with your cell phone on the table, you go to the bathroom with your cell phone. No, it's not possible, people. It's become a disease. It's a disease. It's a drug that has addicted people. Yes, it's addicted, people can't live anymore. And I think it's funny that everyone knows how to carry their cell phone in their hand, there are people who carry three, a whole pack of cell phones in their hand. Yeah. Yeah . You know, I do a lot of that. I'm guilty. [laughs] Hang it around your neck, man. Hang it around your neck. But it's very much like that. Now you can walk around with it because now it will be... We made it harder to steal cell phones. You know we created the cell phone. Secure. Hmm. So now, anyone who has their cell phone stolen, if your cell phone is stolen, you can enter the secure cell phone platform, you know, and give your cell phone number, and it will be blocked instantly. Look at that. And we'll ask whoever stole it to return it to the police station so we can return it to you. That's very important. The other important thing is that if you're going to buy a cell phone and it's cheaper, you... oops, oops, oops, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Yes. You can enter your number and check to see if that cell phone is stolen. Great. Find out where it came from. And now the whole of Brazil. Great. Very good. Mr. President, you... Well, everything will be alright with the election. Soon Lula 4 begins. This time you have the privilege of not having to deal with a transitional government from Jair Bolsonaro. [laughs] I can't imagine that. I can't imagine that work. What... What can we expect in terms of ease? Because now it would be a re-election and especially in general terms, what So, what are Lula's expectations? Ah, let me understand, Brazil is ready for more. Uh-huh. We spent two and a half years recovering Brazil, truly recovering it, rebuilding even places , recovering several ministers, recovering the Palácio Douro, the Planalto, the National Congress, the judiciary, that is, but recovering. It had been 10 years since there was an adjustment in the children's school meals. 7 years without increasing the minimum wage, 7 years without the CAPES scholarship, that is, besides the ministries that didn't exist. So we had to rebuild all of that. I'll say one more thing: a fiscal deficit of 2.8%. When we took over the government, there wasn't money to pay family salaries, there was n't any money. So we recovered this country, balanced the economy, balanced the fiscal situation. Now we are ready for more. Now, in the fourth term, I want to define education. It was education, now it will be full-time schooling up to high school for everyone. Let's go. We're going to universalize full-time schooling, we're going to create more institutes. We have almost 800, and we're going to reach 1000 federal institutes in the next term. We're going to continue creating more universities and we're going to create extraordinary, new courses to prepare people for the new roles that the market is demanding, you know? We're going to send people to study in China, study in the United States, study in Germany, study in France. Wherever there are innovation courses, we're going to send young people, because I want Brazil to be highly prepared. Because I don't want to be just an exporter of soybeans, ore, iron, or corn anymore . Or meat. I want to export intelligence and knowledge. And it's education that will allow us to achieve that. So, the fourth term will be about that. Then the second important thing is the issue of rare earths and critical minerals, you know? Rare earths are 17 chemical elements that you extract from that earth, you extract the chemical elements to produce cell phones, car batteries, electric batteries, chips. And today, the company with the most capacity is... China. Now, Brazil has a lot, a lot, we are the second country in the world in mineral reserves, and we're not going to allow, you know, those guys to come here, buy, and take our rare earth to sell the finished product to us later. No, we want to extract it here, you know? Transform it here, make the industrialized product here, and sell it. Uh-huh. That's the country I want to build, okay? So that we can... We've now discovered oil on the equatorial margin, 175 km inland from the sea and 575 km from Bavaria. It 's not exactly close. Yes, yes. And it's a lot of oil, I think. I have a lot of faith. If we have this oil, we're going to use the money from this oil for a lot of things in education, a lot of things in science and technology, and a lot of things in health. Uh-huh. Okay? So this country will take an extraordinary leap in quality. And I say this with great pride, you know why? Because I see who's running for office . None of the candidates are committed to doing this, or interested in doing this, or have ever done this. Uh-huh. Okay. I say this with great pride. The only person capable of making the poor climb the second and third steps on the educational ladder, on the social ladder, on the health ladder, is me. Uh-huh. Because I came from there. Uh-huh. Yes. And I know what it's like there. I know what the world of the periphery is like. Uh-huh. I know what it's like to live poorly. I know what it's like to want to eat things and not be able to. To want to buy things and not be able to. I know. So I want the people to progress, because only when the people progress will Brazil be well. It will be well. Fair enough. No. Hey, I have a question, and this one is more personal. So, when you're not working, what do you listen to? Music. It's music. Because, because I don't know, I see Lula, I wonder a lot about what I'm talking about, man, I don't know what your musical genre is, you don't have to mention artists if you don't want to, but like, do you listen to nu-metal, death metal, There's a pagode, a samba here that's good for music, it's Janja. [laughs] Oh man, I have very little time, I ca n't even listen to a "The President's Life" song. Sometimes I'm by the pool with Janja, I hear something because she puts it on her cell phone, but the president works so hard he doesn't have time , right? Right? It's impossible. Ah, [clearing throat] it's very difficult. It's very difficult. These days I watched two or three Rock in Rio shows. Look. Because I arrived and was watching, I sat on the sofa and kept watching. But if it depended on me turning on the television to watch, I wouldn't because I would take a shower, I would lie down. Yes. Yes. You see, my life is getting up at 5:30 in the morning, doing 2 hours of exercise and working. Arriving here at 8 or 9 pm when I'm not traveling. Because when I'm traveling, sometimes we arrive at midnight, 1 am. In the morning, sometimes I have lunch on the plane, sometimes I have dinner on the plane, you know? It's a busy life, there's no slack, no rest. Actually, speaking of which, since I know time is limited, I even wanted that MECRF who governed before me, you know? He used to stay here. Uh-huh. You know? Working in the OD office here, you know? He'd go out to the little pigsty to give an interview, talk about someone, and come back in here. Not me, my name is work, working. And my nickname is Horestra. [laughs] Mr. President, look, we're heading towards the end of our time, but there's something very curious that I know, okay, today you don't have time to stop and listen to music, but throughout your life you've had time to watch a lot of Corinthians games, right? So what happens, Mr. President, 4 years ago, when we talked, Load wasn't even a convert yet. He wasn't even into football, but now he's a newly- fanatic Corinthians supporter, who She's crazy, but a newly-minted Corinthians fanatic. I wanted to know from you, since he's doing intensive training and studying, if you have any Corinthians games you'd recommend he watch when he gets home, and maybe he'll become even more of a Corinthians fan? Any game you'd say, 'Lad, are you going to watch this match?' Is it a game from my life, Ponte Preta, in 1977? [laughs] It was 20-something years ago, they were champions for 25 years. 25 [laughs] years. Exactly. You have to see Basílio's goal. I was at Morumbi. I was. Were you there? Did you see Basílio's header goal? Wow. First shot by Vladimir and then the header goal. Yeah. Wow. I have to see that. But I'm going to say something you didn't ask. I don't know if it was time to finish, but I'm going to say something I thought you were going to ask. The issue of video games. True. Which, by the way, now being a gamer is a big deal. You didn't ask , did you? I was going to talk about that when I had to put you on the agenda here. [laughs] First, we are aware that the gaming sector is a strategic and lucrative sector. Uh-huh. For example, it generates a GDP of 13 billion per year. Hmm. You see something very strong. What have we already done? Brazil has five world titles in esports. Yes. Brazil is one of the world's leading countries, it's the largest in Latin America and among the top five in the world. Brazil is great. Then I'll tell you something. We have 25 world titles in various sports, which has made Brazil the host of top-tier international events. Uh-huh . This importance justifies the measures we have adopted in recent years to ensure a policy dedicated to the sector. We created the sports directorate of the Ministry of Sports dedicated exclusively to esports . We sanctioned the legal framework for games, which recognizes that games are cultural creations. With this, the sport gained access to funding from LONET and the Audiovisual Culture Law. Yes. We included the sector in the Brazilian classification of occupations to encourage the formalization of many people, you know? That's it. So, look. Yes, I've already worked within these, I've also presented gaming events, and we are a global reference. When they ask, I'll give you the agenda here. I'll say [laughs] that you don't talk about Corinthians, damn it. Corinthians. So Lud just arrived here. I am, let me tell you something. I 'm a fanatic. I'm a sports fanatic. I used to be much more so. I used to be able to go to the stadium a lot, but now I don't have the means to go to the stadium. Uh-huh. But I used to leave Vila Carioca. Vila Carioca is almost on the border with São Caetano. Uh-huh . I used to leave Vila Carioca, I used to go to Fazendinha, man. It took me three years to get to Fazendinha, you know? And sometimes Quita would lose. I would come back, you know? I would come back, but that's what being a Corinthians fan is all about, right? I He was furious [laughs]. You have no idea. Once I went to see Portuguesa play, man. I arrived half an hour late. When I got there, there was a guy named Mendes from Portuguesa, he scored three goals against Corinthians, [laughs] 3-0 for Portuguesa. I couldn't believe it. Yeah. You revealed it, but I'm worried about Corinthians. Yeah. It's just that now you know that the other day I was talking to Caixa Econômica, you know that Corinthians borrowed 400 million to build the stadium. Yes. They've already paid 1 billion and still owe 600,000. So, I [laughs] told the guy from Caixa, what madness is this? I borrowed 400, paid 1 billion, and still owe 600. It's because of the interest. Yeah. But I'm trying to help Corinthians. You know how that campaign that the Gavião supporters did, I donated R$ 1113 to pay the... Corinthians' debt. Yes. The fans, right, they raised 8% of the debt. But now I told the president of Caixa to propose something new to Corinthians, which is the following: take the farm, the old Braon Jorge. Yes. Do that. One one one makes an agreement with the real estate sector, you know? And he sells it to pay off the debt. Yes. Taking on debt, you know? Take out a mortgage on that and pay off the debt. Why leave that little farm there, paralyzed, just sitting there? Sell ​​that and pay the state so Cint can buy a player. I can't take it anymore, man. [laughs] I can't take it anymore. Even I don't know, I, the Corinthians fan base, is such a fantastic fan base that it's the only fan base that doesn't support the team. But damn, it makes me sad, [laughs] sometimes it's a real test. Sometimes I find myself cursing the car. He's good at soccer. You can tell he's good at soccer. He has a nice touch on the ball, but it seems [laughs] like sometimes he's just being lazy, man. Yes yes. Mr. President, today is the second leg of the Libertadores Cup. President Lula's prediction for today: I was more nervous for today's game than [laughs] I'm going to have a rally. I'm going to have a rally here. Where is the rally, JJ? It's in Seiland. I'm going to have a rally there at 7 o'clock. The game is at 9:30. It's the game of the night. So I'll arrive and watch the game. I 'm begging God, for the love of God, just score one goal. If I were the coach of Corinthians, I wouldn't care about tactics or strategy. I would gather the player in the middle of the field and point out the opponent's goal. Look [laughs] over there, that's the opponent's goal. You just have to kick it, man. Kick it! And here in our defense, don't let anyone kick against us, [laughs] because we don't kick the ball towards the goal. There was one game where it was just 80 minutes of shooting the ball at the goal. Yeah, it was bad. The saying "if you do n't shoot, you don't score" applies here. Man, I used to be a varda player. I was good at soccer. He played well. You were good at soccer, Mr. President. I played a lot of soccer. Lots of ball. I didn't become a professional because my mother said, "Look, you can play and prepare to be president." [laughs] I spent 50 years preparing to be president and I didn't become a professional. But if you were to guess today, what do you think the score will be? I think they'll win 1-0. A very narrow one. You know [laughs] that kind of goal scored with the shin? But speaking of football. The other day I gave him some advice, okay ? I think so. He only called up players who are playing in Brazil. I like the C. Two games in Australia is a good sign. It's a good sign. But it weakened my Corinthians. It completely weakened Corinthians. We did n't have any players, he took out three, [laughs] you know? So, so, but if I were him, at the end of the Brazilian Championship, I would take the next FIFA date, choose the 22 best players in each position from the Brazilian Championship and take them to play for the national team. I agree. To give a helping hand to those who live in Brazil, because they go to "The national team is playing for players who are even playing for second-division teams. Yes, yes, yes. There are people who are reserves in Europe and they're going to be called up for the national team. And our Brazilians here are killing themselves, getting beaten, and he's being called up. I said, 'Damn, man, damn, you earn well, come on. It's the highest salary for a coach in the world.' Look, damn. And he hasn't won anything yet, damn. Damn. It's great to bring in five players. I like the team. I think he's a serious guy. I thought he was a prepared guy. Now, he was good at football, he played with Falcão, he played with Cerezo, you know, at Roma. Yes. Oh, and I think he was a good coach. Now, C, we're in a situation where the players' intelligence isn't good. Uh-huh. It's not good. When I see, look, when I see a teammate, I don't want to mention names, but when I see, we don't have a coach, we don't have any Rivelino, any coach, we don't have anyone [clearing throat]." Gererson, we don't have anyone of quality, it 's complicated, it's complicated. But anyway, anyway, we have to root for Brazil to do well, because we're tired of losing already, right? Yes. No, I still have those 71 goals against Germany stuck in my throat. Look, the Germans scored three goals. I said: "Damn it, Felipão, faint on the field." Felipão cuts to the middle of the field and faints, [laughs] faints. Let the game be stopped for half an hour to give some advice to these kids, man. There's no way. The way things were. Oh well. And then I found it funny in that game that when everything was lost, Felipão takes off a player and puts on that Bernardo from Atlético Mineiro, 1.50 m tall, along with those Germans who are 2 m tall. Then they scored four more against us. Damn, wow, that day was the game where Germany didn't score 10 because they didn't want to score out of respect for Brazil. Yeah, otherwise they would have scored, otherwise they would have Done. So here's the thing, my teammates Cauê and my Lad, [laughs] by the way, Mr. President, sorry to interrupt, but you were the one who revealed that Givanildo, the name of the player, was from a Corinthians player and his father may have heard about it from there, who knows, maybe he was a Corinthians player who came from Santa Cruz in Pernambuco, ask your father, he came from Santa Cruz, was on the Brazilian national team, was a starter for Corinthians a long time ago and then was the coach who brought América Mineiro to the top three times. Man, you have to put this guy in there , to see that even your relative, man. [laughs] You have to put him in to play now, he's old. Now he's [laughs] old. But, man , you know I'm from a generation that saw Pelé play. Yes. I was a Corinthians fan, but when Santos played at Pacaembu, I went to see a lot of Santos games. It was a spectacle in itself. Yes, yes. Yeah, right? It was, it was , it was good. Oh, we even brought Lad, he chose a Corinthians Democracy shirt for you to autograph. He was a very good friend of Sócrates, a very good friend of Casagrande, a very good friend of Vladimir. The goal is to meet the star Neto too, right? We like the man, right? Oh, you like Neto? Oh, I met the star Neto. It's that... Neto Janja. Yes, I met him, I did a job with Neto and I was surprised by his personality, a figure off-camera, a very good person, a very good person. When I leave the present, I think I 'll work with Neto. [laughs] Mr. President, I brought mine too, please. I have one of these. I even got this one to represent the invasion of the previous year. Here, look, to make it look like this. Well, that's right. Put the sticker here. [laughs] I'll put it, I'll put it, I'll put it. Stretch it here, stretch it here. Pull, son. Pull, son, huh. Look there... Givanildo over there, look. Wow, he had long hair. Look, Givanildo had long hair. 22 years with Corinthians. Ah, he was there at the end of the drought. Same jersey, right? That's crazy, I didn't even know. Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President, can I also ask here that this is a little card that graffiti artists usually use as their tag, right? The artists. Yeah, I'll leave one there. It's mine. No, I'll take it to put in my folder that I have [clearing throat] of several graffiti artists. I want to have one too because I forgot my work permit to renew for my job for another four years. But it will be at Lula five. Mr. President, I wanted to finish on a slightly more serious note. Actually, it 's very nice to relax, talk about Corinthians, but it was serious until now, man. Oh, no, of course. Corinthians is serious business. For God's sake, oh nation, I'm not underestimating you, but I wanted to come back to this turbulent moment we're living through. To see if we can at least end up with a message that gives us a little hope, given all the chaos in the press now regarding this whole Supreme Court fight and, well, the election with the dirt that is on the other side and everything else. We already saw Dilma suffer a coup, you were arrested in a scheme that we later realized was a coup. And now , at least within one of the left's circles, people, don't be fooled. What the opposition is working on right now is trying to orchestrate a coup in Brazil, and they won't rest. So I'd like to know what you have to say about these persistent coup attempts on their part and how we're going to continue dealing with this from now on. Let me tell you something, Cauê. Ah, I'm convinced that the far right will always think, will always work from the perspective of staging a coup. Uh-huh. I wanted to tell you that there is no prospect of that, because we are vigilant in preventing it and strengthening... The democratic regime in this country. Uh-huh. I think what's happening in the Supreme Court isn't a good thing. It's not a good thing. Because it means that that mobster called Vcaro... Uh-huh. You know, he involved everyone, crazy. He involved everyone. Now that his cell phone is in the hands of eight ministers, it's in the hands of Zanin, it's in the hands of Mauro, Gil, it's in the hands of our colleague Flávio Dino. Now we're going to know, we know who was with women, who went to have orgies with the women who came from Fina, who did. Because that's what happened, pure orgy. Yes. Everyone is expecting that these guys did all this, you know? There are famous people who were agents, who were the pimps of the group. All this is going to come out now and it's important that it comes out so we can clean up this country. Yes. The Supreme Court cannot have its life tarnished. It is the highest instance of power in this country. When it makes a decision, nobody can change the Supreme Court's decision. You know? So, what have I been saying? It's important that things are investigated, that people are given the right to defend themselves. The presumption of innocence must be guaranteed to everyone, but it's necessary to investigate, you know? Nobody [clearing throat] is above the law. That's the truth. Not me, not Faquim, and no Supreme Court minister, and nobody in this country. Now, what society can't do is keep watching this constant denunciation. So-and-so took I don't know how many millions, so-and-so won I don't know how many millions, from the son of I don't know who, the father of I don't know who, the mother of I don't know who, you know? And the people of Tôn are hearing all this every single day. Uh-huh. You know? So President Faquim, you know, he has the responsibility not to allow this to disrupt the electoral process. Yes, because the people who created the bank were him. The bank was created by them. They created it. And it was created when Roberto Campos was president of the Central Bank, appointed by them. We were the ones who ended it . We ended it. Bank, bank, we arrested their banker because he was a thief. He pulled off a 60 billion dollar scam in this country, you know? So now we have to investigate very seriously. Investigate very seriously. Investigate, you know? Say who is guilty. Whoever is guilty has to pay, and we're going to reform the judiciary from now on. I think, you know, there's no way we can't discuss this anymore. It's not something done hastily, but we need to start thinking about reforming the judicial system because there are a lot of complaints and the image isn't good. That debate on television, I watched part of it, it's not right. I continue to admire the people who work, you know? I think, I'll repeat it here. I think Fernando de Moraes, Alexandre Moraes, did an extraordinary job to guarantee democracy in this country, arresting Bolsonaro and the coup plotters that he is. That's why Flávio is nervous. Yes, he's nervous. He's nervous because all his criminal records are going to come out. " Vocaro, the barbecue, you know? The drinks, the women, and the 130 million he took, you know, from VCAR to finance his father's film. He's not going to watch it, Mr. President, Dark Horse didn't intend to watch Dark Horse [laughs]. But anyway , I'm just asking for this too. I'm not being too hasty, I'm indignant because Brazilian society doesn't deserve this. It does n't deserve this. So I'm confident that we'll find a way out, investigate, punish whoever needs to be punished, and start discussing a reform of the judiciary, which must be accompanied by a reform of politics as well, you know? Because politics is also very rotten in Brazil. Very rotten. This is coming from a guy who's been president three times. Politics is rotten. I voted 15 years later. Politics is much worse than it was back then. Uh-huh. Much worse. So, if we don't reform this, I don't know what will happen to this country. So, this is my commitment for the fourth term. Perfect. Very." Okay. So that's it. We really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. An honor once again, keeping with tradition, right? Now, if there's a Lula 5, know that in 2030 we have to be here again. We have to be here. And thank you very much, [laughs] Mr. President. Dear Cauê, dear Givanildo, thank you very much. It was another great pleasure talking to you. I hope we can meet after the elections so you can ask more questions. Great. Yes. And I want to thank you for showing us the João de Barro's little house there. And you made João de Barro build another little house there. It turned out wonderful. No. And there, let me see. Interestingly, I put, look, the lake is far away. Yes. So I put a wooden box with clay, added water to soften it, and put a lot of grass roots so it could build the walls of the house. You were its helper, right? The bricklayer's assistant. And It's impressive to see him building that house. Yeah. It's nonstop work. Dio is constantly picking up dirt in his beak, carrying it and putting it down, it's something else, and then singing to call his girlfriend. [laughs] The house is ready. I understood what he's singing. The house is ready, my love. Come, [laughs] come to our nest. My nest, my life, right? My nest, my life. [laughs] His house, the João de Barro's house. My house, my life. The João de Barro's, my nest, my life. Even the João de Barro won. I'm very much myself, I'm living, or Cauê and L, I'm perhaps living the best moment of my life as a human being. I say this in everything, I'm doing well, I'm doing well with the things we're doing in the government. Obviously, I wanted to do much more, I wanted to have been able to do much more, but the difficulties were enormous. We are now seeing Trump invade Iran, bringing harm to us, because the price of fuel increases, gasoline increases, oil increases, gasoline increases, the Oil prices increase, rice prices increase, bean prices increase, bread prices increase, you know? Then fertilizer prices increase, our agriculture also increases, you know? Without a war that no longer needs Russia fighting Ukraine and the United States fighting Iran. Even so, you know what we did? We already put 47 billion reais, the government put in to pay, you know? To make a payment to Petrobras and the companies that export oil. We collected the tax from them to pay so that the price of gasoline and diesel doesn't increase for the Brazilian people, okay? Maybe it's the only country in the world that has done this. That's 47 billion reais that we are no longer investing in this country to prevent the price of gasoline from reaching the plates of the Brazilian people. Very good. That's it . That's it . So, boys, good luck to you. Good luck to all of us, Mr. President. All of us, right? We're all here with the same expectation. Thank you for the reception. Thank you to the whole team. And that's it, Givas. That's it, another chat with the president is over, and we'll see each other. Hey guys. Thank you so much! Bye, bye. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. President. Thanks, everyone. Leave a like , okay? Subscribe to the channel. Bravo!