HAMISH MACDONALD, HOST: The Prime Minister's here. Very good morning to you.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to hear from Dave Faulkner. Not what I was expecting.

MACDONALD: Well, he was pleased, but maybe you could explain for listeners how this will actually work because artists have said, you know, and said many times that they just don't stand a chance when it comes to negotiating with huge companies like Anthropic.

PRIME MINISTER: What we'll have is Australian standards that will be legislated. Part of that will be a recognition that artists’ creativity, whether it be writers or songwriters or other people in the creative sector, including the media, that their work is their property and that it can't be used without one, control and secondly, without payment. And so codifying that as well, making sure that that is clear. There are currently, of course, copyright laws in place and what we want to avoid is a free-for-all. This is about our sovereignty, it is about our control. And that people's creativity is, of course, their property, effectively. And if you have property used without consent and without payment, then that is a form of theft.

MACDONALD: But will the laws as they stand need to change? Because, as you say, there are copyright protections that hasn't prevented these tech companies from taking this stuff.

PRIME MINISTER: That's one of the things that we're going to examine, which is why we've set out a timetable of, for a process. There'll be a National Cabinet meeting next month and then legislation early in the new year about the full suite of issues that face Australia and indeed face the world, as a result of the introduction and use of a technology which will transform the way that we work, the way that everything occurs.

MACDONALD: Am I interpreting what you're saying correctly, that you will need to adapt the existing legal framework to ensure that this actually applies within this new market, if you, if you want to describe it that way?

PRIME MINISTER: We will examine whatever is necessary to protect the interests of creatives effectively. And we've had discussions with them. We've had discussions as well, with companies as well. So, I've met with the full suite of groups, if you like. Everyone from Tim Minchin and other people, Holly Rankin and others, through to Anthropic and these big companies. Now, Australia is a destination for investment that is very attractive because of the advantages that we have. But we need to use the fact that we are that destination to control and to make sure that Australia's national interests are protected. That includes the full suite of measures. So, whether it is for data centres, making sure that energy is additional, making sure that water usage, if there's any additional water infrastructure, that those issues are dealt with, making sure that the big data centres are in appropriate locations. But also making sure that issues facing the creative sector across the board are dealt with as well. We know that this change is happening. AI is being used, I'm sure, in the ABC studios right now, but we need to make sure about how it is used and that it is channelled to our national advantage.

MACDONALD: The Prime Minister is here. We're talking about AI, regulating it, data centres. There's something like 44 projects seeking 11 gigawatts of capacity in New South Wales alone right now. Sydney is becoming a global epicentre for data centres. You've talked about them being in appropriate locations. So, one at the moment is proposed within walking distance of the Macquarie Park Metro Station. The local council doesn't really seem to want it there. Is that an appropriate location for a data centre?

PRIME MINISTER: That's one of the reasons why we need to involve the National Cabinet, because planning issues are the preserve of state and local government –

MACDONALD: But I just think it's important to understand what you mean specifically by appropriate locations, because I think many in Sydney can point to examples of where they don't think it's appropriate these centres are being built and yet they are.

PRIME MINISTER: That is why social licence is important and community consultation and those processes are important as well. That's why we don't want to see just a free-for-all. Planning is, as I've said, the responsibility of state and local government. And that's why we want to engage with them constructively so that we get good outcomes. It is in the interest of these businesses as well to locate in areas which bring community support rather than community opposition.

MACDONALD: You're obviously talking about water and energy usage. Will this apply retroactively to the data centres that are already being built, or is this just for new proposals?

PRIME MINISTER: This will be for new proposals. You can't retrofit. But as well, for many of the centres which are under construction tend to be smaller ones. What we're talking about here is potentially, very large data centres need to be in appropriate locations, need to make sure that they add energy to the grid. One would hope that that was something that was considered prior to approval by state and territory governments already. What we're saying is we'll codify that. We'll provide that clarity, that certainty. And what that will do is to provide certainty is that the number one thing that investors look for and that will provide clear legislated rules of engagement, if you like, in order to, to move these issues forward.

MACDONALD: PM, we've only got a couple of minutes until the news. We've had calls in the last week about your decision not to go to Garma this year. This is what you said last year.

MACDONALD: Is this a broken promise?

PRIME MINISTER: You know what, Hamish? I haven't had a day off all year. And this weekend – in a few days, I'll be in another remote part of the Northern Territory. Garma isn't the only festival that's taken place. I've been to Garma. It's a wonderful festival. I informed the people who operate Garma there, the wonderful people, the Gumatj people, some time ago that I wouldn't go because I will be on leave at that time, but I will be at another festival in the Northern Territory in coming days. And I've been to Gama every year that it's been held since I've been Labor Leader in 2019. And indeed, going back further and further –

MACDONALD: Understood. We've only got 30 seconds to the news, PM –

PRIME MINISTER: You need to just sometimes – I’m actually speaking to you now with the flu I've had, you keep going. Your diary is full, and it's been a fully engaged time. And can I say this, one of the great things I did was to take a leader from the Yolngu people to Fiji for the alliance that we formed with Fiji. And that First Nations engagement in the Pacific has been so important.

MACDONALD: Alright, PM, 20 seconds to the news. Has Jodie had a word with you about not playing weird games with podcasters and interviewers?

PRIME MINISTER: Look, I've, I've dealt with that issue –

MACDONALD: You've learned your lesson?

PRIME MINISTER: There are two things that you need to do when you make a mistake. One is to apologise –