And at the start of the morning news, we began our JM here, as always, Ricardo Ismael and I, but he left the studio to fulfill a commitment to bring a live statement from President Lula, who is here in Salvador. So now I want to call Ricardo Ismael live, alongside our president. Rique can hear me now. Good morning, welcome back. Yes, Camila, I hear you, I listen to you perfectly. I was here talking to the president, you know, before going live. We are in Campo Grande Square, almost at the foot of the hill, as they say. Here is Praça 2 de Julho, at the hotel where the president is staying, who kindly greets us early in the morning. Mr. President, thank you very much for meeting with us. It's a pleasure to have you with us here at Jornal da Manhã, talking to our audience. The pleasure is all mine, Ricardo. To tell a suggestive story here. This hotel here, the first time I was here was in 1978. The first time I had the idea of building the PT (Workers' Party), I was here, Fernando Henrique Cardoso was here, Almino Afonso was here, Jaque Wagner was here, I think Rui Costa was here, it was a congress of the petrochemical sector. And I was invited by Wagner to come here, Jacobar was here and Fernanda Henrique Cardoso was here, everything. And it was here that I first had the idea that it was necessary to create a workers' party in this very hotel. Look at that . We're here again, starting this interview with the president speaking on July 2nd, right? We are on the most important civic date for Bahia, for the people of Bahia, and for the fourth consecutive year you are here in Salvador on July 2nd, and yesterday you signed the decree, which will be sent to Congress, making July 2nd the national day for the Consolidation of Brazil's Independence. Mr. President, do you believe that Congress will approve the decree, and if it does, what importance will it have for Bahia and for Brazil itself? Look, I think it's very important for Bahia because it values ​​the history of the people of Bahia, and it's very important for Brazil because you're going to put this in Brazilian history books. You're going to put this in the textbooks that you distribute in schools, especially for younger children and high school students. In other words, people will realize that Brazil's independence, with all due respect to the September 7th decreed by Emperor Dom Pedro I, the concrete fact is that it was only on July 2nd, 1823, that the people of Bahia definitively expelled the Portuguese from Brazil. So I always say, they left through the same door they entered, and it was Bahia that created this sea. It's important for people to know the true history of Brazil because often history is only told by those who win, and not by those who fought, who often fought, lost, and are more important than those who won. So , Ricardo, I'm actually working on it now. I've already spoken with our dear Minister Margarete Menedes, I've already spoken with some filmmakers, and I'm looking to encourage the production of about 10 historical films about Brazil. So that the people may know the history that motivated so much struggle in this country and so many achievements that nobody knows because people only know the history that is told officially. So, July 2nd is a very, very important day for me , because it was the definitive day that the people of Bahia said: "Look, Dom Pedro already says that I'm declaring independence, you all, get out of here, get out of here because we want to own Brazil." This is a fantastic thing that people need to know. So it's a historic recognition. Now, Mr. President, it's added to the national calendar, but it doesn't become a national holiday, right? Look, I don't celebrate national holidays because I think Brazil already has too many holidays. I didn't want to create another holiday, because we already have a day for everything in this country. In other words , I think that recognition is already a holiday in Bahia. Recognition is far more important than a holiday. In other words, recognition is what will lead the Brazilian people to reflect on what July 2nd meant here. What happened, because most people in the country, in Brazil, don't know. If you do a survey, you'll find that 90% of the population doesn't know what happened on July 2nd. You think it's a June festival, you think it's a party, you know, it's not a party that celebrates bravery, you know? of the people of Bahia, and especially of three women who were very important here in Bahia. And that. Maria Felipa, Maria Quité, and Joana Angélica, among so many others, Mr. President, who don't even appear in history books, but who gave them prominence. I wanted to move forward here, we have important topics to discuss with you throughout this interview, and the automotive sector, Mr. President, to talk about the BID (Brazilian Interbank Deposit Certificate). Yesterday, BID presented the production line here in Camaçari, in the metropolitan region. This vehicle assembly line will operate in a testing phase until its official inauguration, the date of which is not yet defined. My question is this: do you have any information on when the inauguration will actually take place ? There is a defined deadline for this, and furthermore, Mr. President, I would like to know how BioID, this Chinese automaker, will contribute to the development of the Camaçari industrial hub , to Bahia itself, and to the permanent generation of jobs? No, it 's already contributing. Let's be frank. Let's be frank. Few people expected that after the disrespect Ford showed to Bahia and to Brazil, we would replace Ford with a Chinese company to revolutionize the Brazilian automotive industry . That's what Biadil is doing, a revolution in the Brazilian automotive industry. The innovation process it brings, the process of being the first electric car here, the process of having a company, you know, that will generate many jobs in Bahia, that will generate a lot of development in Bahia, you know? And it will bring innovation to politics. It's very important. I'll tell you something. After Badil came here to Bahia and set up shop, I received an announcement of a 130 billion reais investment in the new automotive industry throughout Brazil, something that hadn't happened in over 10 years – there hadn't been a new model in Brazil. Just so you have an idea of ​​what happened to the automotive industry. When I left the presidency in 2010, the Brazilian automotive industry was selling 3,600,000 cars. When I voted in 2023, the Brazilian automotive industry was only selling 1,600,000 cars. It fell by more than half, thanks to our government and thanks to the arrival of Bia Dilma, that is, the Brazilian automotive industry has resurfaced and today we already have a lot of investment, a lot of new cars, the competition to see who will be the best electric car, who will be the best hybrid car, who will make it is extraordinary. Biandil will start by assembling cars, then they will begin producing parts here, and finally the entire car will be manufactured here. Do you have any information about the opening? Mr. President, look, I was actually supposed to come here for the inauguration yesterday, I think it was yesterday, today, but it wasn't possible, but possibly in August I'll be back here. I'll probably be back here in August for the inauguration. I'm very pleased to be bringing in the automotive industry, you know? At the time when I was governing this country. Bahia deserves it. When Ford left, it left a void in Bahia and a void in Camaçari. And I think Biail brings life to the industrial development of Bahia. Bahia deserves this and deserves more. Allow me to talk a little more about Ford, because Bio arrived in Bahia coinciding with Ford's actual departure in 2021. And the impact was very significant, you know, in job creation and the economy. What do we do? What can be done to prevent this from happening again? Present. Look, it's very difficult to prevent a company from making decisions to expand to one country or another. What do you need to guarantee? What you need to guarantee for these people is that the people have reasonable executive power that can buy the cars that are produced here. What brings an industry to a country is the market. If an industry doesn't see a possibility of someone consuming the product it's going to manufacture, it won't come to the country. So, we have two things. We have a strong and important domestic market in Brazil, and we have the capacity to produce for export throughout Latin America. What Brazil needs to work on is building partnerships with Latin America. This is an important market for Biadil, and I think that's what they actually want. In other words, you can produce cars here, or you can produce cars in another country. You can produce part of it here, you can produce it in another country. What's important is that she is revolutionizing the behavior of the Brazilian automotive industry. Long live Camaçari, long live Bahia, you know? And our governor Jerônimo is very fortunate because of this. Well, and the law the law the law da da da finally left the Taparica bridge. This bridge was a difficult birth. Ricota knows how much he suffered. How many times have I spoken with Ciping, how many times have I said: "Hey, my friend, what about our bridge? What about our bridge? Our bridge is all set, the bridge will be built. The foundation study for the 105th pile is already complete. This will begin the R$11 billion investment and will be another revolution for the development of Bahia. But I wanted to take advantage of your questions, Ricardo, and ask something that nobody asks. I need to speak, if you allow me, this interview is mine, but I'm going to tell you something. It's just to tell the people of Bahia about the moment Brazil is experiencing. I know we have n't done everything yet and there's a lot to do, and there will always be a lot to do in Brazil. But let's take July 2nd today, how is the situation in Brazil? We have the lowest unemployment rate in Brazilian history. We have the largest stock of formal employment. It's the largest in history. 48 million workers. We have the real income of workers that has reached the highest historical value since 2012. We have the highest wage bill in history since 2014. We have the lowest per capita household income in history. We have the lowest level of extreme poverty in history. We have the highest export of pardons in history. We have the highest number of foreign tourists this year, reaching 10 million, and we have already broken the record of 7 million in 2024. We have the SASF plan, the largest in history. The largest. Yesterday we announced the agribusiness plan, and the day before yesterday we announced the small business plan. Together, these two represent 605 billion reais over the 3 years of our government. In the previous government, over 3 years, it was only 800 billion reais. But we also have the ENEM (National High School Exam), a record number of students enrolled in the ENEM, and for the first time, more than 20% of the population under 25 years old has completed high school. Superior. All of this, man, is a source of pride for a President of the Republic who doesn't have a university degree and who is the president who has created the most universities in the history of Brazil. Mr. President, I wanted to take this opportunity—we'll talk about universities in a moment—but I wanted to move forward with the IOF issue now, talking with you, right? One of the most discussed topics in Brazil today, right? Uh, the issue of the tax on financial operations. The Attorney General's Office already said yesterday, in fact, that it will appeal against the announced overturning of the increase . Exactly. It already appealed today, in fact, right? Well, this overturning came from Congress, and it's important to remember that the vote in the Chamber was significant. There are some figures here; it was 383 votes against 98. The text was confirmed by the Senate. And my question is, Mr. President, isn't there another way out other than litigation, right? Especially since this causes more harm? Let me tell you something, Ricardo, because many times people create unnecessary turmoil. Look, the President of the Republic has to govern the country, and a decree is a It's a matter, you know, of the President of the Republic. You can have a legislative decree when you have something that seriously violates the Constitution, which is not the case here. The Brazilian government has the right to propose the F, yes. And we are not proposing a tax increase, no. We are making a tax adjustment in this country so that the wealthiest people slow down a bit, so that we don't have to cut money from education or health. That's what we're doing. In other words, there was pressure from the betting companies, there was pressure from fintex companies, I don't know if there was pressure from the financial system. The concrete fact is that the interests of a few prevailed within the Chamber and the Senate. Because I think it's absurd. And look, I am grateful to Congress. I am not someone who has a rivalry with Congress. Congress approved many things that we wanted. On the same day that it approved the legislative decree overturning what we presented, it approved a series of things. I am grateful. But if I don't appeal to the judiciary, if I don't go to the Supreme Court, that is, I don't govern. But the country, man. That's the problem. Each monkey in its own tree, it legislates and the government. You know, I send a bill, they can veto it, they can approve it or not. If I veto it, they can overturn my veto, and if I don't like it, I go to the judiciary. Now, what's wrong with that? The mistake, in my opinion, was, you know, the breach of an agreement that had been made on Sunday at midnight at President Hugo Mota's house. Several ministers were there, several deputies were there, my colleague Fernando Haddad was there with his team. They celebrated the agreement, celebrated the agreement. One Sunday I was at the beginning of the Oceans Congress in France. I called Gate Hoff and asked how the meeting went. She was amazed by the meeting. I've never seen so many hugs, so much affection, so much agreement. Then on Tuesday, the Speaker of the House made a decision that I considered absurd. Now you might ask, is there a break with the Congress? No. The President of the Republic does not break with Congress. The President of the Republic recognizes the role that Congress has. He has his rights and I have mine . Neither I interfere in their rights, nor do they interfere in mine. And when the two cannot understand each other, the justice system resolves it. Now, Mr. President, from a technical point of view, that is, from the point of view of the impact of the IOF (Tax on Financial Operations), the understanding is that the increase in the tax will impact both the richest and the poorest, especially because it has levies on general operations, financing, taxes, inflation, that is, it's fair that you can talk about cutting spending, expenses, you know, trying to interfere with education. Do you know what proposal I made? It's that we could cut 10% linearly from all the tax benefits that we give in Brazil. Do you know how much tax exemption and tax breaks there are in this country? Do you know how much tax is not paid in this country? R$60 billion more. Now, if you take away 10% linearly, the person "Those who have it should stay at 90. They'll remain rich, they'll continue receiving benefits, and you wouldn't need to cut money from education or healthcare. In other words, they want me to cut benefits, they want me not to raise the minimum wage, what do they want me to cut? We have to cut those who are overweight. We have to perform bariatric surgery on those who are overweight. That is, take a little so that we can help the most needy people. That's what we did. Now there was the São João festival, everyone went to the São João festival. Then there was the festival in Goiás, in Parintins, everyone went. I'm going to Argentina now to receive the presidency of Mercosur. Uh, then I'll participate in some odd jobs in Rio de Janeiro. When I return, I will calmly talk to Hugo, I will talk to Davi Columbre, and we will return to the political normality of this country. Sir, Mr. President, are you thinking of reviewing the issue of tax benefits in Brazil? Look, the problem in Brazil is the following. When I was president in..." In 2010, I implemented R$47 billion in tax breaks. And when I implemented tax breaks, there was a quid pro quo; you granted tax breaks, and the business owner had to make a commitment. Either they provided job security for their workers, or they hired more workers to justify it. Because tax breaks mean they will stop paying taxes and earn more money. And where does that money go? Just so they don't have a benefit. This time, what happens is that when you grant a benefit for 5 years, as it ends, the person wants another five. As it ends, they want another five. And as it ends, something that is temporary becomes permanent. And it's not possible for this country to continue like this . It's not possible. We need to work to make the country a middle-class country. We cannot be a country where one day the people are doing well, the next day they are doing badly. One day the people are doing well, the next day they are doing badly. Look, we had ended hunger in this country in 2014. When I returned in 2023, there were 33 million people starving. Is that justifiable ? So, my friend, what are we doing? And I'll tell you something, Ricardo, you're a scholar, you 're a historian, and a journalist. I wanted to tell you, Brazil has never experienced the historical moment of social inclusion that it's experiencing today. It has never experienced the moment of social inclusion that it's experiencing today. I always say, there were two historical moments of social inclusion. There was Getúlio Vargas, who was a dictator at the time and consolidated labor laws, which lifted workers out of semi-arid conditions and gave them working hours. And the minimum wage, which was created by Getúlio Vargas. Okay, back then there was no salary for anyone, they paid whatever they wanted to pay. And in our government, man, in our government, we managed to lift 54 ​​million people out of poverty and put food on people's tables. You, Ricardo, one day you will learn what the São Francisco River transposition project is. You will learn what it is... The largest water infrastructure project in the world, if not the first and second, to bring water to more than 13 billion people, which Dom Pedro tried to do in 1846 but was prevented from doing, and which, after 150 years, we finally mustered the courage to do. And there is water. You will learn about the largest water infrastructure project in Brazil, bringing water to those who, you know, need it every morning? Your child wants a glass of water to drink and there is n't any. When I was 7 years old, Ricardo, I would go to a pond and get water to drink, get a pot of water. I know what it's like to separate cow dung, goat urine, everything so you can get a glass of water and drink. So we are bringing defense to the Brazilian people. This costs, it costs. It's like university. Oh, Ricardo, the whole university system in Brazil is so absurd that I can't understand why it has to be a lathe operator who doesn't have a university degree who has to do things. Santo Domingo, which was discovered by Christopher Columbus's ship in Ricardo, do you know when the first Brazilian university was founded in 1920? Mr. President, since you've brought up the topic of universities, let me ask you a question : 80% of Brazilian universities have fallen in global rankings, right? That's a concrete fact. UFBA, for example, has its worst ranking since the beginning of the measurement. The main factor pointed out by experts and scholars is the decline in research, which is said to have pulled down this percentage. Are there plans to increase this, Mr. President, from the point of view of research? And why this reduction, Mr. President? We'll say the decline in research is due to reduced investment. And we can't discuss this without remembering that this country experienced a coup in 2016 and then the madness of President Bolsonaro, who practically not only destroyed the universities but did nothing for Brazilian universities, nothing for scholarships, nothing for culture, nothing for equality. Racial issues haven't done anything for Indigenous people. In other words, people can't complain without remembering what happened, the storm that swept through this country. We are recovering, and there will be no shortage of money for research, no shortage of money to build new laboratories, no shortage of money for university hospitals. In fact, it's important to remember that on Sunday there will be a nationwide action by all university hospitals performing surgeries on Brazilians to try to reduce the number of people on the waiting list. All university hospitals in Brazil will dedicate Sunday to performing surgeries on Brazilians. Certainly, here in Bahia, there will be a UFBA hospital. You mention the issue of Indigenous peoples. That's my next question, Mr. President. The original peoples of Bahia. I have some data here that I want to share with you, with us. There are four territories in Bahia today that were demarcated by FUNAI a long time ago, but the actual homologations, made by the Ministry of Justice, haven't been finalized . And the ministry's justification is that this delay... This is related to Law 14.701, which became known as the "time frame law ," even though these indigenous lands in Bahia predate the 1988 Constitution. You even vetoed the law, but Congress overturned the veto. Last week, I'll bring this information to our discussion: the Supreme Federal Court (STF), which opposed the "time frame" law when judging the case of an indigenous land in Santa Catarina, held a final conciliation meeting, and once again, no agreement was reached. My question, Mr. President, is how the government intends to deal with this, with this power struggle, going forward, and furthermore, how can the federal security forces act to prevent new conflicts, especially in southern Bahia? Let me give you some data first, a very important piece of data. We took office in 2003. Since then , we've had a record number of quilombola territory legalizations: 21 titles and 32 declaration decrees. It's the largest in Brazilian history. Regarding indigenous issues, we've already legalized 13 indigenous lands that have been definitively approved, and there have been 11 declaratory decrees. It's the largest done in a single government period in this country. Now, what actually happens legally? Look, I think that when the National Congress behaved, you know, trying to overturn the issue of the temporal framework, which I vetoed, most of the things that were done, it remained as if it were approved in the National Congress. Hmm. It remained as it is, what is valid is what was approved in the National Congress. Minister Jumá took on the task of trying to reach a national agreement on the indigenous issue. A land deal has already been negotiated in Mato Grosso do Sul, where the federal government bought 10,000 hectares of land to guarantee that the Guarani Kawai Indians could use that piece of land. And we understand, you know, that there is a negotiating commission involving the indigenous people, involving the Chamber of Deputies, involving the Supreme Court. This is a federal issue involving the government, which is discussing the " time frame" clause. It's important to resolve this so that we can avoid violence. Here in Bahia, you have a conflict that I talk about every day. Every single day someone asks me about the Indah conflict, and you have a poor conflict. It's an improper confidant; you have a group of poor Indigenous people who want to stay on their land, which historically belongs to them. And you have people who have lived there for decades, for 50 years, who believe the land is theirs. We don't want a conflict. So we're going to have to spend more time at the negotiating table so that we can reach an agreement. We have several conflicts of this nature in Brazil, cities built on Indigenous lands, and we're going to have to find an agreement because I can't remove the city or expel the people. I can't expel all the people; we need a peaceful solution so that we can resolve this problem. It's a serious problem. Yes. It's a serious problem, but it has a solution. If we can dedicate a very, very auspicious amount of time to negotiate with both sides. Parts. I don't want poor people fighting with poor people. I don't want indigenous people fighting with rural workers who are also there to survive with their families. I want them to reach an agreement and each stay in their corner so we can resolve this peacefully. There is land. There is land. Whatever needs to be bought, we have the money to buy land. What is needed is an agreement in the all-or-nothing politics, otherwise we end up with nothing. Regarding the use of federal security forces, the security force only enters the state when the state needs it. When the state requests it, you know? We don't intervene with the security force. If there is a conflict that the local police can't handle, in some states the police side with one side, you know, one of the sides. And usually on the side of the strongest, then the national force enters, and when called upon, when requested by the governor, the National Force will be available to intervene. Very well, Mr. President. We have the issue of crime in Brazil. This is, unfortunately, a national reality. The numbers in our reality in Bahia, they The issue of the war between factions is greatly impacted by innocent people caught in the crossfire. This is a sensitive issue in Brazil. I want to hear your thoughts on this. What are your thoughts on this? And what can the federal government effectively do, what is being done, to change this terrible reality for the country as a whole? Look, let me say something, Ricardo. For a long time, there was a discussion in Brazil that I think led nowhere, about who is in charge of the police, who is responsible for security? If you look at the Constitution, security itself is the responsibility of the state governor, who has the Military Police and the Civil Police. The federal government has the Federal Police, you know? And the armed forces, which are not involved in this story. And the federal highway police . Minister Lewandowski sent a proposed constitutional amendment (PEC) to the National Congress, a PEC to better define the federal government's participation in combating organized crime and crime as a whole. I saw a discussion between Minister Rui Costa and Minister [name missing]. Lewandowski and Minister Lewandowski telling Rio Costa that there were billions of reais in the national public security fund, which is what's being raffled off. Just kidding, Minister, because in Bahia alone I spend 8 billion. So, 2 billion for the whole of Brazil won't be enough . That's true. So, what do we want to discuss? We want to discuss the following in the PEC. We've already had three meetings with state governors. Some are in favor, others are in agreement. What we want to build is a civilized partnership between the state and federal governments to define the role of each, where the federal government comes in – just to give money, or does it have a role in the political decisions regarding the fight against crime? We will assume more responsibility for organized crime along our borders. We are structuring the Federal Police; we've already set up a Federal Police base in Manaus so we can take care of, you know, Amazonas, to combat illegal mining, to combat illegal loggers selling contraband on our border. But much more is needed. So this PEC will allow for discussion in the National Congress. We need to clearly define the following: how will the federal government actively participate in the fight against organized crime, against crime and violence in Brazil, because it grows every day. It grows every day, and every day the people also lose more confidence in the police. Look, the police should be a kind of guardian of society. When a police officer arrives, society needs to see someone who will help them accomplish something. But at times in Brazil, the police officer is seen as an adversary of the person who needs police assistance. So what we need is to find a formula that isn't magic, it's a civilizing formula, it's an understanding between the state government and the federal government to know where each one participates. I think organized crime today is very serious, Ricardo, because organized crime is a multinational enterprise. He has influence in the judiciary, in politics, in football, you know? It has arms everywhere. Organized crime is everywhere . It has everything, wherever it is, and it has an international presence. So, to confront organized crime, we need to be more professional, investing a lot of intelligence so that we can combat this evil that is a scourge throughout the world, and in Brazil it grows because in some states, many parts of the police force are complicit in it. Mr. President, we are now nearing the end of our interview. Yes, I also needed to know at the beginning, but I still want to hear from you to finalize what projects and opportunities you envision for the state of Bahia during your term? Look, let me tell you, we have a park in Bahia that's a powerful attraction in Bahia, you know, Ricardo? The PAC (Growth Acceleration Program) in Bahia, it seems to me, amounts to 107 billion reais, of which 32 billion have already been spent. In other words, there's a lot going on in Bahia. There's a lot going on in Bahia. There are things related to water pipelines, there are things related to irrigation, there's the "My House, My Life" program, there are things in the health sector, because look, we've now created a program, you know, called " Having a Specialist." What is Ricardo's problem ? Ricardo leaves his job at Rede Globo and goes home, feeling unwell. Then he goes to the first UPA (Emergency Care Unit) he finds. Then the doctor, Ricardo, answered and said: "Look, you need a cardiologist." Then Ricardo will schedule an appointment with the cardiologist, it takes 10 or 11 months. Then, when he goes to the cardiologist, the cardiologist orders another MRI in 10 months. No one waits 20 months to seek treatment. Now it will happen, we are working on it now, you know, as a team, including with private hospitals, so that we can ensure that in less than 30 days a person can have the necessary tests done. If I go to the doctor and he refers me to a specialist, I have to go to the specialist immediately. If he asks for an X-ray, it has to be done quickly. We can't. This is a new program that we believe will be completed by the end of August. And what we want, in the old days, is that people would die with the prescription on the servant's desk because the servant couldn't afford medicine. We started giving out 41 medications for free at the public pharmacy. 41 free medicine so that no one dies for lack of medicine. Now we have the expert. So we're going to provide the expert as well, you know? And he gives and gives and gives the machine so he can do the X-ray, the magnetic resonance imaging, do whatever he needs to do. Saito CT scan. And that's what we're doing now. Hey Ricardo, this country was so broken that when we arrived at the pension system there were only 12,000 doctors nationwide. Today we have 28,000 doctors, man. In other words, it's the basic thing that the people need. It's elementary. So, my dear, here's the thing. I am convinced, Ricardo, I am convinced that Bahia, and not only Bahia, has a lot to offer, because Rui Costa is the Chief of Staff, he is the one who defines priorities, so I'm just keeping an eye on things. He's not pulling things towards Bahia, things for Bahia. We could stay here and talk some more. The newspaper is coming to an end. I want to thank you once again, despite your busy schedule, for finally welcoming us here at the hotel. Go now, you have a scheduled event on July 2nd, then you travel to Argentina later in the afternoon. I'm going, I'm going to Argentina tomorrow to meet with the president of Mercosur and tell him some news. I will sign the Mercosur-European Union agreement during my term as president of Mercosur. It will be the biggest trade deal in history. There are 722 million inhabitants in the two blocs and a GDP of 27 trillion dollars. In other words, there will be no shortage of opportunities for us to do business in the world. Thank you very much, Mr. President. Thank you, Ricardo. Thanks. Camila Oliveira, follow from there. Thank you very much, Ricardo Ismael, for the interview. Our president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. We also want to thank you from here for your company on this symbolic and very important day, so fundamental to our history.